Episode 6 – Building in Public

Paul:

Hello everybody and welcome to the RunningWeb3 podcast where we talk about running a web3 or crypto business. I’m your host, Paul Lambert, and today we’re joined by Nadja Bester to talk about building in public. Nadja is an entrepreneur, startup advisor, and marketing communications expert with 16 years of experience currently, co-founder at Ad Luna, the crypto industry’s first engaged to earn investment platform with a proof of attention model. She’s been in blockchain since 2017. She’s held industry positions, including communications agency director, cmo, consultant and advisor. She is served as a journalist for several publications, including bitcoin.com and investing.com, a nonprofit board member for new money systems and sustainability, and a speaker at several international industry conferences. Naja was the owner of an international digital marketing agency in the early 2010s, and the head of digital marketing and communications for the largest pharmaceutical firm in Africa. She’s a startup, lecturer, mentor, and social entrepreneurship and sustainability advisor for teams participating in such events as the Holt Prize and has led startup teams to victory twice as national level winners and once as global winners. You can find her links in the show notes. Hello. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you on here. We’re talking about building in public, which you’ve been doing with web3. Explained what is Web3 Explained and what got you into it? What got you started on this whole project?

Nadja:

Yeah, so this is actually such a loaded question because there’s so much interwoven into this, you know, very sort of definitive point of the journey. Um, so first maybe just to backtrack a little bit, what is Web3 Explained? Um, so at the beginning of 2023, we are in 2023 now. Yes. It’s hard to keep track <laugh>. So in the, at the beginning of the year, um, I set out to write a book within the next 365 days. Uh, the book is entitled Web Through Explained, but whenever I say or talk about what I do, I always say I’m writing a book because this is very far from the conventional approach to writing and publishing a book. Um, because I am so entrenched in web3, uh, the entire book experience, which is what I like to call it, will be used or created or consumed.
Uh, the experiences will be, will be created, uh, and then consumed via web3 technology. So really the idea was for it to be an immersive experience as opposed to, you know, a book that you read from cover to cover. No, I had very little idea above and beyond that what it was gonna be about. I had absolutely no idea. And, and that was not a problem because really the, the message was the vehicle with which the book would be delivered. Um, so really the topic could be about anything, but because I had decided to make it web through Explained, um, which is quite a generic title, I had kind of two streams. One would be that I would be very abstract. Um, I have a, hi, I have a background in psychology and sociology philosophy, all of those, uh, modalities. Um, and I can very easily look at things through a metaphorical lens, uh, which is something that I thought maybe this is the direction that the book will take.
Um, on the other hand, it could be the 101 stuff, and this is really the conversation that you and I were having just a few minutes ago about the epiphany that I’ve come to that Yes, even though I set out at the beginning of the year to start with this very sort of complex, uh, abstraction of web3, um, that probably it is getting closer more to the 101 side, but I believe it will be a hybrid model. Um, but really just quickly to come full circle about really what the project is all about. So, 365 days of writing a book. Uh, every month there’s a new use case for the technology. Very often it’s N F T Technology. I host a show called The Future of NFTs, which is really where the idea for this book came about. Cause I talk to so many people in the N F T industry that, I mean, if you say the word N F t, what comes to mind for most people is a jpeg and a monkey picture.

Definitely something that costs 69 million. And, you know, that’s kind of the, the, the, the gist of it. But of course, NF T is a technology and they are incredible things being built, um, including by us. I’m the co-founder of Ad Luna, which is an engaged to earn investment platform. So I am exposed to so many different use cases in the technology, um, that I realize that as part of this philosophy that to read my book is to experience my book. Um, I can also come up with new use cases that would apply to the book, but instead of, you know, copying someone else’s use case as a theory, I can just show mine in real time. So that really in summary, is the idea behind vote three, um, to demonstrate what is possible, uh, and to play a little with what is possible, because that’s still the amazing space that we are in. Yeah, at this time, um, it’s, it’s changing a lot because a lot of new faces are coming in all the time, um, and the market will continue to mature, but at the moment there’s still huge scope for people to be experimental and go in any direction that they wish. And this is really the most exciting time and I think should be captured. And that I think this is really what the essence of the book wa wants to be and will be about, is to capture the zeitgeist that is happening at the moment.

Paul:

Yeah, that’s, uh, a one year goal on that is incredibly ambitious. I feel like people could spend an entire lifetime on any one piece. And like you said, it’s, it’s constantly changing what you write about today. The use cases will, there’ll be twice as many by tomorrow. Um, it started out in NFTs with the, the JPEG craze like you were talking about. Um, but it’s evolved past that. And even in the middle of the, the height of that particular phase of NFTs, people were already developing all these other use cases for it outside of just art. Um, I’ve talked about a couple before with like real estate is one that really interests me. Um, there’s a lot of logistics. I know people were talking about at, um, the conference at NFT Paris. Um, people were a little bit disappointed that it wasn’t being used for ticketing because ticketing is another really big possible use case for it.

Um, and so tackling a project like this is already a, a massive undertaking. And then being able to take it from just a book, I, it could be a several thousand page ebook easily, but being able to take that and turn it into an interactive experience, I think is something that is not currently on the market. A lot of people get book knowledge, um, from creators out there who are working to educate people and talk about all these really cool things that you can do in web3, um, specifically with NFTs. But, uh, there’s a big difference between learning something and experiencing something. And so being able to experience it and learn about it through that is, is really cool.

Nadja:

I, I think so much of this comes from very selfish need. Um, the first one is, you know, I was saying to you before, with my A D H D brain, I need to do things in a certain way. And I would say primarily the reason why I took on this philosophy of building and public, um, nevermind the fact that I, I, I resonate with it very much. Um, I’m also part of the PKM personal Knowledge management, uh, space. And, um, yeah, I really love the idea of just organizing your brain in the best possible way to work with you instead of against you. Um, and also, yeah, as a busy professional that has been in however many different industries for so many years, and I’m a single mother, I travel, it’s extremely important to me to maintain the right head space and mental health space.

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So really originally the reason for me to come into this idea of building a public, which is very much what this 365 day project is all about, was to ensure that I give myself the accountability. Um, writing a book is, I, I mean, I, I identify primarily as a writer. This is not a trajectory that my career took, although I did work as a blockchain journalist for a couple of years. I wrote for bitcoin.com, um, now I can’t remember, but many others. Um, it’s somewhere on the internet. Um, and I did have the ability to express myself in writing in this industry, but I mean, very commercially focused in terms of writing about a project and writing about what’s happening in the news. So, you know, there’s a lot of objectivity that you cannot necessarily, um, express in an article that you might be able to, you know, express in a book of vice versa.

So it is two different mediums mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but I also know that as a person, again, all of these roles, you know, being a mother, um, being the leader of a company, um, being a person in the world with a lot of things going on for all of us, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> the illusion of me having enough time to sit down and write a book, um, I mean, that would be my number one fantasy, go shut me down because shut me away in a cabin in the woods and I’ll talk to you in one year. Um, you know, that’s the dream, right? But in reality, probably it’s not going to materialize unless I radically change the way that I look at this and radically change what my expectations are. So if I’m expecting to have a thousand page tomb by, you know, the end of it, um, yes, I will be disappointed.

However, if I tell myself, Hey, in any case, I think that books are outdated. Uh, and why do I think so? Cuz I’m really busy as a person. I’m also a ferocious reader, although I used to be because now I’m too much of a busy person. So I know that everyone else can very much resonate with what I’m saying because we have very short attention spans. We have mm-hmm. <affirmative> way too much, you know, coming at us from every direction. Everyone wants our attention, and it’s not possible. Even if we wanted to, we couldn’t give what everyone wants and need to them, nevermind, take this precious time and go sit and read a book. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So very much this was as a result of what I needed. And also looking at what my own problems are. Um, as a reader, I cannot appreciate a book in the same way anymore.

I need bite sized. And in any case, if I read a sentence in the book, probably I’m going to go Google what I read, and then I’m going to read other articles and when do I come back to the book. So part of the idea of making Web3 Explained, you know, a more comprehensive experience is to almost anticipate this. So saying something in the book, the book might be, I don’t know, 10 pages long. It’s really not about the, the size and the length of the book, but really what is the complete comprehensive experience that I can offer the reader slash consumer. Because really, if you think about it, it’s difficult to call people readers anymore because we are consuming, everything that we come across has become a quest of consumption in some sense. And this is not necessarily the healthiest thing for us as a society, and this is definitely something that we are wrestling with and will continue to wrestle with.

Um, but certainly in a world where, you know, tech companies have been very much top down in terms of our insurance spans, in terms of how algorithms are structured to vie for our attentions. And I mean, if you, if you look now, how long do you even have the ability to read a book for before, before you need to go do something else or pick up your phone? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s scary, right? It’s like really scary. Um, so we, we come from that legacy of the consumer always being the one that is being taken from in exchange for something that is almost unwittingly changing the structure of their brains. So yeah, the other idea with Web3 Explained is really just to honor the consumer more. Um, to go, you know what? You can plug and play what I’ve created for you, uh, at your own, you know, at your own leisure.

Um, you can design the experience for yourself, whatever kind of type of experience you want in terms of time, in terms of intensity, in terms of, you know, going into depth and complexity about something. Um, as opposed to saying, look, I created this for you and I’ll sit down and consume it and, and make me feel good about myself. So I think there’s a lot of shifts taking place. Um, and really the book, I think in a sense captures that and, and aims to capture this. Um, so really the book is not the holy grail. The book is, you know, as a, as an author, the book I, I think it’s less about the book than what the book represents.

Paul:

Well, I think that’s been a big shift for everybody. I remember when I was, I don’t know, maybe 13, a new book would come out. I would go to the nearest bookstore, I would buy it, and I would read 600, a 600 page book that night because I was super pumped for it. And it was amazing. And now I still, I want to read and yeah, I just don’t have the attention span. I don’t have the time for it anymore. And I know when I’ve been looking at the, the way that I’m writing for longer form content as well, the content isn’t necessarily the hardest part. The information often exists. It’s how do you take that information and put it into a format that people will actually read? Because if you write a really long book that is super information dense and has all the answers, but nobody’s gonna read past the first three sentences, it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter that much.

Unless obviously if you’re writing for yourself, that’s great, but if you’re writing for other people to consume, you need to create that in a format that people will be interested in and continue to consume so that they can actually get all the value out of it. Um, but I know you were talking about accountability, and I know that’s a big, um, a big reason that a lot of people have looked at building in public. Um, there’s only so many hours in the day and it’s very hard to consistently prioritize something if maybe you haven’t told other people about it. It’s a lot easier to let yourself off the hook and say, oh, well I’ll do it tomorrow. Um, but I think that accountability is also something that scares a lot of people because if you miss a day and you’ve told everybody about it, it, it can be a little bit worrying. Have you run into criticism or anything like that from times where maybe you said, Hey, I’d love to be able to do this, and you just aren’t able to get to it, or life gets in the way, or you only have 24 hours in a day, <laugh>.

Nadja:

You know, so I be, because, and, and just really also to make this very clear, because I’m not sure if I shared that at the beginning as part of this 365 day process, I committed to release to shooting and releasing a vlog every single day. So this typically has been mm-hmm <affirmative>, two to three minutes of me talking on whatever comes to mind, you know, related to kind of the experience of building in public in terms of writing or creating web3, explain. And I got to a point where being on LinkedIn, because this is where I primarily post, um, I got to the point where constantly scrolling and even though the likes are not why I’m doing it, but I’m getting likes. So then you wonder why yesterday did I get, you know, 20 more likes than today? So it really got to a point where it started affecting me, like from a mental health perspective, I started feeling overwhelmed and burnt out and I eased a little bit, um, you know, not, not as in the, on the, on it all the time.

And it still was feeling like something was going to have to shift. And then when I went to N F T Paris, and this is also something that you and I were discussing earlier, um, a real big shift took place for me. Um, so originally the reason I would vlog is I would kind of address other industry professionals, um, you know, just talking through my experience. And they had been a lead up to N F T Paris where I was talking to a lot of lay people about the book and constantly finding myself in a situation where I would have to explain what is an N F T, what is web3 mm-hmm <affirmative>, because people, you know, outside of this echo chamber that we are in, don’t necessarily know that what we are doing is what we are doing. Yeah.

Paul:

It’s complicated stuff

Nadja:

<laugh>, it’s complicated stuff and there’s a lot of myths floating around. And, you know, even a lot of people that I, I was, uh, really surprised to find that a lot of people had never heard the term web3 before. So it was completely alien and foreign to them. But then when I was at N F T Paris, um, as I was saying to you earlier, there was a huge turnout and really surprised me how many people who were completely not working in the industry. But I’m just curious, um, from parents with kids and older generation, um, maybe it was definitely skewed towards a younger generation. Um, but you could see people from other generations, you know, represented there as well. Um, families, as I said, and a lot of just curious young people who obviously have heard of the term but don’t quite know what it’s all about.

Um, there I realized that there’s so many people waiting to be spoken to, um, people that really have an interest in this stuff. But as you say, it’s just too complicated. And yes, there are people focusing on the 101, but there’s so much 101 that’s needed that we needed in many different styles. We need many different people in their own way to speak to people and not necessarily onboard them. Cuz I think this is the other illusion that we are under is, you know, we need to onboard everyone. There needs to be a mass adoption right now, but it’s more about just opening a door. Maybe this person will not, you know, become involved in this industry for the next four years, but, but you were the one to open the door for them. So I think that door opening is important. But to get back to your question, so after N F T Paris, I then found myself not making another video, even though I had consistently been making a video every single day.

And everyone that I spoke to in this period of it’s been a week or so, uh, has been very supportive. But what I found incredible and fascinating is how much I then started judging myself, you know, the perfectionism that rears its head and going like, oh, but you’ve, you said that you were going to do this and now you’re not. And it was really such a beautiful experience to have this one foot in this world of perfectionism where I initiated the accountability for my own wellbeing, and now I’m turning the same accountability that was purposed, you know, repurposing this, this, this, uh, this setup that I’ve created to beat myself up with it. So I found that very, very interesting. Um, and I think throughout this period, I’m not a content creator in the sense that, you know, I’m out there with a brand and I’m creating all of this, I’m doing this now with Web3 Explained, but for the purpose of doing it this way, kind of documenting as well how it is.

So it’s mm-hmm <affirmative>, it’s something that I can very easily still remove myself from. It’s like a sociological experience and experiment for me. Um, but I’m now really in the shoes of so many content creators that I think are suffering. Um, because if this is your business, if this is your brand, it’s extremely tough. Um, and it’s given me so much empathy, especially for content creators and influencers because I mean, this world is getting bigger and bigger and what a person might think of an influencer or a content creator, it’s not so important as the fact that there are more and more of those people. Um, and they, right. It’s a very toxic system if the system gets so much internalization in terms of overwork and overachievement. And so, yeah, really, just to summarize what you were saying, I mean, there’s this element of building and public that is beautiful and I absolutely love it. And there’s also this other sense of the hustle culture and making sure that the accountability of building in public is closer to your own values and what you’re trying to get out of it than to the hustle culture where everything is just about go, go, go. Which yeah, can be difficult to, to shut down or to, you know, to drown out if you are on the internet and in modern economies.

Paul:

Yeah, I think that’s not, not necessarily web3 specific. There’s a lot of people that, um, what’s saying that everybody’s their own worst critic, and it, it gets to that point where you end up judging yourself more harshly than anybody else is judging you. Um, and that’s one of the things that I like about this building in public. The, the whole like, idea and movement behind it is, up until this point, it’s been largely clouded. There are some people even in, in mainstream media that have come out and, and spoken up and said like, Hey, I need a a break. I’m running into these issues. And they show the things that they’re running into. But I think it’s become more, more popular, more, uh, accepted now for people that are going out there and, and running into these and saying like, Hey, I haven’t posted a video in a week because I don’t resonate with this anymore, and I’ve found something that maybe works a little bit better for me and for the people I’m, I’m creating for being able to see somebody that, um, is doing that.

Maybe you don’t place those expectations on yourself quite as much. You have somebody that you can say, well, this person is successful and they also need a break. They’re, they’re not necessarily superhuman. Like they, everybody here is just a human. And we all need to be able to take time for ourselves. Um, there are going to be times when you stumble. There are going to be times when maybe you completely change what you’re doing, and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. And being able to see public examples of that, I think has been a big, has had a big impact on younger generations. I, I wouldn’t consider myself old yet, but I know that like my, my younger siblings and, um, their friends and and things like that are a lot more okay now with understanding that balance and understanding that you’re, you’re not going to have one set path in life where everything just works perfectly no matter how hard you work. It does not matter. There’s going to be changes, there’s going to be stumbles, and that’s okay. So it’s been really good to see people that are building in public and, and make that acceptable.

Nadja:

I think that is so true, especially generationally, because I have a soon to be 17 year old son. So I am also seeing this generation in terms of being so open and honest and transparent about mental health. I mean, outspoken about it in the sense that, you know, my son always jokes that everyone he knows is depressed and everyone is on antidepressants. And, and that’s not something that, it’s just, it’s, it’s one of those things. Um, and, and they joke about it in a way that, I mean, my generation, you know, it was a taboo and you wouldn’t talk to anyone about it. So even just that radical honesty I think is, you know, huge. Um, but then it’s also, if you think about it this way, you know, I, I, and I’m so glad you you brought up the generational aspect because if we talk about a platform like LinkedIn for example, cause obviously every generation has their own platform where they kind of come to the fore.

Whether this is TikTok for the younger generation, Instagram for, I, you know, a lot of times for millennials and then LinkedIn, I mean now I don’t think is as generational, but of course a certain segment of the population that is very sort of career focused and professional focused. Um, and I think if you’re on LinkedIn is very easy to look at other people’s posts and go, well, they clearly have more time in a day than I do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, or they clearly have more many peop you know, more people to help them. And they clearly have, I don’t know, more talent than I have. Um, I mean, as someone who we at a Luna, we’re a team of 16 people and, and even more, if you count people that are not full-time, um, I have a lot of help. Um, I’m definitely not alone and I definitely have a time perception problem, um, because it does feel to me like everyone else has more time than I do.

But I know that there are so many other people in the world who also have a lot on their plate. Um, so for me, when I scroll through LinkedIn, I personally have to remind myself that not everything I see here is e is everyone’s day-to-day reality. People generally post when they feel good. Um, they generally post when they feel positive or excited or, you know, there’s something positive to share, especially on a platform like LinkedIn. Um, and even if you see someone posting every day, I mean, people literally have pay others to manage their accounts. So it’s really, again, you know, that that age old concept of what you see on social media, not necessarily what you should be believing as ultimate truth. And I think for me, the biggest thing about building in public, um, that I wasn’t anticipating but I’m so happy about is the ability to be honest and the ability to say, you know what, this is not really what I envisioned.

Um, I think for me also as a woman, which was fascinating to uncover, is this idea of being on camera every day. What if I don’t have a good hair day? Now I’m not the kind of person that thinks of myself as prioritizing those things, but when I was faced with the idea of every day I need to be on camera, it really started even pulling in those insecurities of, oh, but what if I don’t look good today? And, and then it happened because I would have to film and, well, I didn’t look good and oh well, you know, it happened and it’s out there and who, who cares now? And so it’s just been a liberating process on so many different levels. Um, and just to come back to your earlier question about, you know, having had possibly any negative feedback in terms of they’re not sort of reaching the accountability.

Um, everyone that I’ve spoken to, whether via comments on the LinkedIn posts or in private messages, everyone always would say the same thing, take as much time as you need, you know, go for it. You do. You, and, and I don’t know if this is web3 specific, um, or it’s just the sign of the times, but I have been amazed by just how sensitive people are to this idea that, you know what, there’s more to life than just output. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I think that is really beautiful because that primarily should be the message I cannot give from an empty cup. Um, exactly. And if I’m emptying myself in order to reach a certain goal, I mean, if I use myself, I committed to this 365 day vlog at the start of the year, not understanding what it’s like to do a video every day.

Cuz I’d never done it before. And so I thought it was, yes, it was gonna be difficult, but completely doable. But I had no idea how complex the whole thing is. And as I said, I mean, I also didn’t think, oh, but there’s only 24 hours in a day and if I’m going to be making a video, who should this video before? Because maybe it’s for, you know, speaking to someone who already knows what I’m saying and it’s good validation, but is this really how I want to be investing that time versus maybe I can use the same time to make a video but address it to someone completely different who might then have an entry point into the industry. Whereas, you know, the person already there might not have the same epiphany or just, uh, an aha moment. Um, yeah. So, so it’s been really interesting.

Paul:

Well, there’s no way to know until you start doing it, which is, I think another reason why it’s so important to be doing this in public is I know as, as a, as a co-founder originally there was the same sort of pressure where it was like, okay, this is what we’re going to do and now this has to work from the start when you’re first starting out. And I would say even when you’ve done company after company or project after project, everyone is different. And there’s no way for you to realistically know everything that’s going to happen over the life of that project, whether that’s a couple of months, a couple of years, it doesn’t matter. And one of those skills is being able to change and manage it and say, okay, well maybe I don’t do a video every single day now. Or maybe I change up the format of it and rather than worrying about the number of days that I have made these videos, I worry about the content that I’m producing.

Or making sure that you are effectively reaching the audience and, and making something that is going to be useful for them. Um, I know that some of the posts that I’ve had, the biggest posts that I’ve had have been, or the most successful ones have been talking about the times when I have stumbled the, the shortcomings that I’ve run into. Um, one of my most successful posts to date has been me talking about burnout. Cuz I got caught up in that hustle culture and I was like, okay, I’m gonna do it. I naturally, I love to deep dive on things. And so I would go in and the problem is when you’re working with other people who have that same mentality, you feed off each other’s energy and you end up working 90 plus hour weeks, and then that’s not sustainable for anybody. You can’t do that long term and being able to turn around and say, Hey guys, I thought I could commit to this. And it’s not realistic to, to keep up the outpouring of support, like you said, from everybody saying like, Hey, take time for yourself. Uh, like you said, I I like the, the empty cup analogy. You can’t fill other people’s cup if yours is, is empty right now.

Nadja:

I think the key is not that Bernard necessarily can be avoided. Um, I think it’s very much related to a personality type, for example. Um, I mean I I I I’m a very proud recovering workaholic, um, proud in the sense that it took me a really long time to understand that I’m workaholic in the first place. I was in huge denial about it. Um, it was really not the kind of thing that I thought of myself. I’m work as a positive thing. There’s so much, you know, positivity that comes out of it. Why, why equate it to an addiction? Until I really got to the point of realizing it was doing me more harm than good. So I’m proud to have been recovering from that mentality ever since. But it doesn’t mean that it’s going to no longer lead to burnout because I’m still a certain kind of ki personality type.

Think what I realize what is important is knowing how to react. I love what you said about having this mentality of being able to pivot and to be, you know, to to have the courage and the bravery to share your experience. Um, and again, you know, you could see this as an altruistic way of, you know, sharing your learnings with the world. But, but let’s be honest, the more that you openheartedly share, the more support you get. So it really is not that you are doing it only in this altruistic I’m going to, you know, spread the seeds of knowledge with the planet and the universe out there, but it’s, it, it really benefits you as well. Um, but what happens when Bernard starts or what happens when you are leading to burnout? Um, I think that’s also incredibly important to have these conversations. Like, I mean, I can say to you right now, being very honest at the moment, I’m extremely burnt out and it’s scary because I’m burnt out and I’ve just started this project.

So now what? Like, really what now? I mean, I run a company, I’m writing a book, I started this project, there’s, I, I’m getting so many new opportunities every single day and every single week, and that leads to more burnout. And so, so it’s so overwhelming to be here. But then what is the question now? Should I quit everything? Should I run for the hills? Should I go, you know, to a monastery for two weeks? Which I do do from time to time. I mean, I, I I I’ve done all of those things, tried everything in the book, and then coming to the point of saying, you know what, the only thing the only way forward is just be honest about it. Um, yeah. Is it’s just to say it to you on camera right now. Hey, I’m ex actually extremely burned out <laugh>, you know, and, and that’s the kind of thing that I think is really missing from, from workplace conversations as much as from personal conversations.

Um, I mean, radical openness and honesty, I think in, because with the term radical doesn’t mean that there’s no empathy for the other person, right? It’s not a, I take from you by giving you honesty. I mean, it’s a very, very mutually respectful process when there is a radical honesty. Um, I’m not sharing because I wanna prophesize or because I wanna, I don’t wanna get something from you or I don’t wanna manipulate you in some way. I’m just being honest about me and my own experience. And I think that is something we are not really seeing, especially in the workplace. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think coming back to this new generation, they far more easily will talk about this, but there’s many people in many generations who will still be working and achieving things for many decades. And so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the work also lies there.

The work lies, I think in a sense, to be an example, um, and to, you know, to put your, to risk putting yourself out there, um, I mean, the reality is that when you share something very open, very openly about yourself that makes you feel vulnerable, most people would respond very positively because it’s a very courageous thing to do and people resonate with it. So I think this fear of people, oh my God, what are they gonna think of me? You know, what is my my professional sort of aura going to be after this? If I say this out loud or if I, and it really is almost never the case. Of course, they could always be criticism, and this will be true for any area of your life where you put yourself out there even a little bit. Um, but I would say generally speaking, people respond so positively to, to vulnerability and to openness and honesty.

Um, that, yeah, th this whole idea of building a public, I think it’s become very powerful for me personally. Um, I’ve always, like, I’ve been watching people over the years do it in other industries and never felt that there was really something that I, that I was so passionate about that I wanted to document every step of the way. Um, but I mean, in web3, something that I’m very passionate about and the future of web3 as the next generation of the internet is something I’m very passionate about. And as I said, I’m very passionate about keeping a balance in my own life. Um, I’m very passionate about keeping myself account accountable without driving myself crazy with my perfectionism. So it’s just a very nice holistic package. Um, and I can highly recommend whatever you do, you know, just, just start building in public.

It’s, it’s a lot more fun. Um, really it’s, I mean, I wouldn’t be talking to you right now if it wasn’t for the fact that I made this decision. And so that’s so cool to just do something. I mean, I’m just out there doing whatever I’m doing and here I get to speak to you. So this also, I think is an evolution in terms of how people will be building their careers in future, for instance, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I speak to so many people who are just getting started in web3 through content creation. And it’s beautiful to listen to people’s journeys. It’s so exciting for me to see how people are taking their own careers and their own professions and their own futures into their hands. Um, and a lot of this is made possible by, by putting yourself out there and creating something.

So why only then share the final product, um, share the journey along the way as well. I mean, that’s really what people are interested in. Not the, you know, the the final product on the shelf. Um, we wanna see how you doing it, we wanna see you fall, we wanna see you rise because we create a relation, you know, like there’s a relationship that’s been created, a connection. Um, and that is what’s so powerful. So I would, last year, I, I might have wished for world peace, but now that I’m building in public, you know, <laugh>, no, I mean of course I still want world peace. Um, but yeah, I think it’s something that has, just experience it in whichever capacity that you can. It doesn’t have to be huge. Um, but just, just try it and see how it lands for you. Um, cuz it’s about so much more than just being seen or being accountable.

I think it’s such a dynamic process of just connecting with your audience and feeding off of that audience feedback and the audience engagement to either strengthen where you thought you were going or in my case to realize, oh, but actually I wanna go in a completely different direction and that’s okay because this is my thing that I’m doing and I’m allowed to do this. Cuz I think, you know, if you, if you think about the way that many of our systems are structured, especially the education system, it’s really difficult to make major decisions and then come to the point and say, Hey actually this is not working for me. I’m gonna go do something else. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if your parents are studying for X degree for you and after four years you decide that this is not for you, you’re gonna go do something that you have to study another four years for not ma many parents would be happy about that, right?

And many people end up doing things that they don’t necessarily want to do because, well that’s the opportunity they have or it pays the bills or it just came along at the right time and then they in it too long or too deep. Um, which is again, why building a public is such a fun and safe thing to do because you can really do it. You don’t have to do it professionally, you can do it in any other area of your life as well. Um mm-hmm <affirmative>, just the fact that you are putting yourself out there and kind of showing yourself as a real person. Cuz I think today be real is a currency. Um, and I hate saying that, I hate equating those two because it sounds like an oxymoron, but we are so inundated with people who sell us the glitz in them, um, that it’s, it’s almost necessary for our own sanity to be exposed to people who are just honest and real.

Like we, we, we need that reality check, right? We need the, the reality check that goes, no, everyone really has an off day. It’s an illusion to think that some people are happy like 24 7. It’s not true. Everyone has the same insecurities, everyone has the same hopes and fears. There’s no exceptions. Stop thinking that you are the exception because, you know, we all experienced this, but, but we need to have these open, honest conversations by someone initiating them. And I think that’s the other reason why, you know, building and public is so important because it doesn’t matter what the problem is that you are facing, but if you are doing a certain kind of thing, probably there are many other people with the same problem and problems and issues as you. And they wouldn’t know that they are not alone, if not for the fact that there are people out there talking about it. Um, see, I think it’s a positive thing for society, even if I can, you know, blow it up to that level. Um, it’s a beautiful thing. Just, just try it. <laugh>.

Paul:

Yeah. I love that you used the word respect earlier cuz that, that got me thinking that’s exactly what it is. If whether you’re building in public for something that you are creating as a content creator or whether it’s for your job or your personal life, by hiding everything and just showing the end product, you’re almost lying. You’re being disingenuous to the people around you. I know from a purely business perspective, if one of my employees is having an off day, let me know if I’m, if I’m gonna put stuff on you and it’s going to, you’re not going to get it done and it’s going to hurt you. That’s too bad things. If you aren’t able to get it done, I can assign it to somebody else. Now we get that done and you get your day back and you’re, you’re doing better as a person.

Great. That’s two good things. It, it’s silly to take two bad things when you could have two good things or I can rearrange. And the same thing with, with personal, um, life. Like, people tend to surround themselves with those who are supportive. If you are posting about the good things that you’re doing, that’s awesome. I’m gonna support you and I’m gonna celebrate that with you. And if you’re posting about the problems you’re running into, that’s great. I’m going to support you, try and help you feel better. Find a way around it, like the, the people that you interact with, unless you’re keeping a bunch of people in your life that are like mad at you or don’t like you for some reason, like the people you surround yourself with are going to be people that want to see you succeed and want to help you with that.

And that means helping you with your failures and celebrating your successes. It just because you, you run into a one-time failure does not make you a failure. And I think that’s what so many people are worried about, but being able to show that we all stumble, like you said, we’re all human. None of us go our entire lives without an off day. That’s just not possible. Um, and so seeing that other people also run into this and that we can all help support each other, it, it builds people up. I know certainly when I’m <laugh> I have all these problems that I’m working on and it could be really nice actually to take a break and say, Hey, this other person just shared that they ran into this problem. Um, you’re feeling burnt out. How can I like come here and support you and hopefully that makes you feel better and kind of get back in the groove that you’re looking for. And also, I know, at least for me, it makes me feel better that I, you know, maybe improve somebody else’s day or am able to help them solve this, this pain point in their life. It you surround yourself with people who want to help you. So share that journey and let them help you with it.

Nadja:

Yeah, I, I love that perspective because you are so absolutely right. It’s also about, you know, as a parent, I often feel I would love to fight all my son’s battles for him. I would love to make sure that he never encounters any problems. So if there’s even a whiff of a problem, I’m there before he even knows about it. And if you’re a parent, you come to the point where you realize probably nothing could be more detrimental because this is not what you are there for. You are not there to live their lives for them. And in a sense, if you are putting content or if you are putting yourself in your presence out there, and you are only ever sharing the good, the wonderful, the beautiful, the successful, um, you are not allowing yourself to have a true connection with your audience and you’re not allowing your audience to really establish and grow a connection with you because yes, then it is an illusion.

Um, and it means, I mean, people might not sit at their dining room table thinking like, oh my God, you are only ever positives or clearly you are lying to me. I mean, it’s not that people think about it that deeply. The difference is that when you show up as a whole person, sometimes you have a good day, sometimes you have a bad day. It doesn’t feel like you’re putting, being put on a pedestal. I, I guess in the way that if you only ever share great things, but people recognize how real you are. And I think this is the key difference is people inevitably, I mean whether you know it consciously or not, but we all move towards people who are more authentic. Um, because mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it doesn’t set off our alarms even of ourselves not feeling good enough. Because I mean, if you think about if you are the perfect, well, whatever you are in your profession or even your, in your personal life, if you are the perfect c e o, if you are the perfect wife, if you are the perfect husband, the perfect parent, um, that’s very daunting.

<laugh>, that’s pe pe people find it quite scary to be in any way associated with you from a comparative point of view because clearly you are perfect <laugh>, so you’re in a different, so I mean, that’s very self isolating if you put yourself out there and you know, there’s never any mistakes that can be made or everything was always planned and there’s no unexpected and not, not to mention that it’s very unrealistic and as you say, it is a lie. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but I think the other thing that I also wanna highlight is, you know, this imposter syndrome, um, imposter syndrome is just absolutely insane. Um, and it’s so self-imposed, but what I find fascinating is, is this underground network where my imposter syndrome is mingling with your imposter syndrome and that person’s, and it becomes like this underground network of, you know, whatever we say and think and do on the surfers subconsciously there’s this whole other process at work.

And again, it’s very, very toxic if everyone is walking around thinking that, well, they are not good enough. And even though they are where they are, but they don’t deserve to be there because never should you be found out. And if only they knew who I really am and or not, I’m not. And I mean, it’s just such a waste of, um, of, of, of, of self. Right? And if we are o only ever on social media showing the light side of the moon, then this is inevitably what happens because again, there’s not an honors conversation about the highs and the lows, the ebbs and the flows that are completely inevitable in every person’s life. So I feel it’s very positive that we are seeing these changes. Um, for sure. I think it’s not enough. I think that more people, um, more people are needed to build in public, um mm-hmm <affirmative>, but it’s not that you have to, you know, take up the cause and come join the, the activist and it’s really just a lot of fun. It’s just so much fun. Um, so I, I think it doesn’t matter why you do it or what your intentions are, it’s a very diverse, uh, concept. There, there, there’s so much that can be gotten out of it. Um, but really, I mean, ultimately I think it’s just fun. It’s a lot of fun. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and as adults, like we need all the fun we can get because our lives are very serious <laugh>,

Paul:

It’s almost like a little mini game. It’s its own separate thing where you get to, like, you see yourself leveling up, you see the people around you leveling up and like you get to celebrate the, the successes together and have like a little party. Yeah. It, it feels almost like a little video game. It’s

Nadja:

Absolutely love it. Love it. Yes. <laugh>.

Paul:

That’s awesome. Well, I appreciate you, uh, coming out here and talking with us on this. Um, if people want to follow your journey and um, follow along with what you’re doing, where could they find you?

Nadja:

I ask people this on my podcast every week, and then when it’s asked of me, then I always feel, oh my God, I really should be more active on x, y, Z platform, <laugh>. So I am everywhere, but really the only place where I post a lot is on LinkedIn. Um, so just not your Besta. Um, I, yeah, I am on Twitter, I’m on Facebook, I’m on Instagram, not TikTok. Um, but uh, the other thing is there’s just too many social media platforms out there and I think, again, for the sake of our insanity, like you get to a point where you feel no, this is gonna be where I’m gonna shift my focus to. And yeah, for me that is LinkedIn. Um, and as for at Luna, um, could be LinkedIn or, or Twitter. And then Web3 Explained as something that I generally share through my own profile first, or you can also follow the page or explained on LinkedIn.

Paul:

That’s awesome. I appreciate you coming out and hopefully people be, uh, checking out your LinkedIn soon. But tempered expectations, let’s all remember that. Uh, there’s only 24 hours in a day, <laugh>.

Nadja:

I’m sure there are less, uh, I’m sure it’s a big conspiracy that we are only made to believe that there’s 24, but there might only be like eight or something. <laugh> not proven yet, but I’m sure I’m getting close. <laugh> Paul, thank you so much. Ba yeah, just such a beautiful conversation because it really was about things that are so important and so real. Um, so thank you for also creating the space, uh, to be able to talk about this. Um, cuz I think these conversations are the real ones that need to be had. They are the, the meta conversations beyond what chain we are on and, you know, beyond what’s gonna happen to the N F T market and is defi ever coming back. Like, these are really the most important conversations because we cannot do any of those things if, if we are not well taken care of by ourselves. So yeah, thanks for letting me talk about it.